Ah, you conjured an old high school memory of an enraged boy who verbally attacked me for kissing him and "not meaning it" and then slapped me across the face, completely validating my choice not to "follow up" on a chaste "goodnight and thank you kiss" after a spectacularly boring evening. All that "But I'm a good guy" stuff is just rancid frosting on a shit cupcake of male rage.
Thank you for sharing your personal story! The onus always seems to be on women for "picking" the right guy. I've seen too many women with men who don't pull their share.
the movie “Promising Young Woman” has the “nice guy” theme you convey here on full display. it’s extremely cathartic, validating, and heartbreaking/warming to watch. highly recommend!!
Oh my word did this resonate! It isn’t exclusive to our teenage years unfortunately. Just when you think you’ve made a male friend they go and ruin it! I just wrote an article about this awful conundrum! The subtle, icky way male ‘friends’ ruin everything…
When you go back home for a month and decide not to date because you’re about to go away for medical school (another 9 years of higher education with specialty and subspecialty training) and the “nice guy” says you’re being SELFISH by not dating….SMH
My favorite thing about my life? I gave up on men 10 years ago - no more dates, no more worrying about dates, no more spending hours running background checks on guys who asked me out online, no more planning how to escape & get home from a 1st date without him finding out my real name or where I lived (until I was sure he wasn’t going to rape or kill me).
We don’t need men, they need us. We need to open ourselves to the possibility that happiness can be found in living solo & without being a caretaker to a man. I am a full-time caretaker of me & my circle of female friends. I have so much more time to devote to others by not being drained by a man. They are tapeworms. They are needy. They are weak.
This is spot on. Funnily enough, the only boyfriend I’ve had who described himself as a “nice guy” (literally while lamenting how “Nice Guys Finish Last” yes, the Green Day song) caused me more emotional damage than any other relationship I’ve been in before or since.
And even when we do get with the nice guy or give them what they want, they are not nice. The one nice guy I went out with was abusive and violent. Going out with the nice guy is how some of my friends, like me, ended up in abusive relationships
You make a lot of valid points, but why is the bitter nice guy still worse than the abusive bad guy?
Like, why is your hate not primarily directed towards the abusive bad guy who actually harms women in relationships, but towards the bitter nice guy who feels vindicated?
What a ridiculous fucking comment. It’s an essay focused on “nice guy” behavior - that’s why. Click the link to the one previously written on hetero-indignity and there’s plenty of rage there too.
I read that article and its context is marriage and long term relationships. The whole husbands not doing emotional and domestic labor thing.
When nice guys talk about women going for bad boys, it’s in the initial dating and hookup culture context. The bad boys are good-looking, hot, masculine, good in bed, but toxic, selfish, not emotionally available, non-committal, just keep women around for sex, and therefore hurt them.
A lot has been written about women, specially younger ones, wanting a challenge, wanting to tame a wild beast, wanting to fix a hot troubled guy and social media (TikTok) has millions of examples. If that’s what their hearts want, what can other men or even you do about it?
There’s no point in other men being bitter about it. Attraction is shallow and the heart wants what it wants. I think younger generation of men now understand that niceness does not create sexual and romantic attraction on its own.
All the nice guys I have dated were covert narcissists who eroded my identity and self esteem to the point that I am now trying to fix life threatening autoimmune illnesses and C-PTSD. They are cancerous and envious of the "bad guys".
Ah, you conjured an old high school memory of an enraged boy who verbally attacked me for kissing him and "not meaning it" and then slapped me across the face, completely validating my choice not to "follow up" on a chaste "goodnight and thank you kiss" after a spectacularly boring evening. All that "But I'm a good guy" stuff is just rancid frosting on a shit cupcake of male rage.
Thank you for sharing your personal story! The onus always seems to be on women for "picking" the right guy. I've seen too many women with men who don't pull their share.
I need a shirt that says "stop blaming women for men's bad behavior"
Totally!
And the onus on women to control men’s bey
The word, “himpathy” comes to mind.
Kate Manne's work is ALWAYS top of mind.
This article is just too spot on.
I both love and HATE this.
the movie “Promising Young Woman” has the “nice guy” theme you convey here on full display. it’s extremely cathartic, validating, and heartbreaking/warming to watch. highly recommend!!
Oh my word did this resonate! It isn’t exclusive to our teenage years unfortunately. Just when you think you’ve made a male friend they go and ruin it! I just wrote an article about this awful conundrum! The subtle, icky way male ‘friends’ ruin everything…
https://educatedandopinionated.substack.com/p/friends-trying-to-be-lovers?r=1gtxb4&utm_medium=ios
You’ve basically described every male feminist
When you go back home for a month and decide not to date because you’re about to go away for medical school (another 9 years of higher education with specialty and subspecialty training) and the “nice guy” says you’re being SELFISH by not dating….SMH
How dare you conserve your energy for yourself and career! SMH indeed.
Indeed
So frustrating.
My favorite thing about my life? I gave up on men 10 years ago - no more dates, no more worrying about dates, no more spending hours running background checks on guys who asked me out online, no more planning how to escape & get home from a 1st date without him finding out my real name or where I lived (until I was sure he wasn’t going to rape or kill me).
We don’t need men, they need us. We need to open ourselves to the possibility that happiness can be found in living solo & without being a caretaker to a man. I am a full-time caretaker of me & my circle of female friends. I have so much more time to devote to others by not being drained by a man. They are tapeworms. They are needy. They are weak.
This is spot on. Funnily enough, the only boyfriend I’ve had who described himself as a “nice guy” (literally while lamenting how “Nice Guys Finish Last” yes, the Green Day song) caused me more emotional damage than any other relationship I’ve been in before or since.
And even when we do get with the nice guy or give them what they want, they are not nice. The one nice guy I went out with was abusive and violent. Going out with the nice guy is how some of my friends, like me, ended up in abusive relationships
You make a lot of valid points, but why is the bitter nice guy still worse than the abusive bad guy?
Like, why is your hate not primarily directed towards the abusive bad guy who actually harms women in relationships, but towards the bitter nice guy who feels vindicated?
What a ridiculous fucking comment. It’s an essay focused on “nice guy” behavior - that’s why. Click the link to the one previously written on hetero-indignity and there’s plenty of rage there too.
I read that article and its context is marriage and long term relationships. The whole husbands not doing emotional and domestic labor thing.
When nice guys talk about women going for bad boys, it’s in the initial dating and hookup culture context. The bad boys are good-looking, hot, masculine, good in bed, but toxic, selfish, not emotionally available, non-committal, just keep women around for sex, and therefore hurt them.
A lot has been written about women, specially younger ones, wanting a challenge, wanting to tame a wild beast, wanting to fix a hot troubled guy and social media (TikTok) has millions of examples. If that’s what their hearts want, what can other men or even you do about it?
There’s no point in other men being bitter about it. Attraction is shallow and the heart wants what it wants. I think younger generation of men now understand that niceness does not create sexual and romantic attraction on its own.
Fucking amen! The nice guy that I chatted with in my college class became my stalker when I turned him down.
All the nice guys I have dated were covert narcissists who eroded my identity and self esteem to the point that I am now trying to fix life threatening autoimmune illnesses and C-PTSD. They are cancerous and envious of the "bad guys".
Oh yep, I’ve experienced this quite a few times. I always go back to “if someone has to tell you they are, they aren’t”